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ikester7579
How many firmaments are there, and what do they mean?

First off, most YEC believers make the mistake of assuming that when ever the word firmament is used. It's a reference to the Crystalline Canopy only. But, how do birds fly in the canopy? So this will be a break down of what each firmament is.

Firmament means: Arch, expansion, or to be compressed.

God's word uses the word firmament to show boundaries between physical things, or realms (heavens).

QUOTE
gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


The first firmament is the formation of the Crystalline Canopy. This was done before the waters were receded off the face of the earth (Genesis 1:9). So the firmament created here was while the earth was still covered with water. And is the reason it says that it was created in the midst of the waters. This would fit the definition of a firmament being an arch or expansion.

QUOTE
gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.


The second firmament is the creation of our atmosphere that we breathe. And because the first firmament is made from water, and in the midst of water. The second firmament divides the water from the water (air being created-air in between). Which would be the canopy (water above), and the ocean (water below). And because the air is compressed (barometric pressure), it would fit the definition of being compressed, which equals a firmament..

QUOTE
gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


This is where the second firmament is given the distinction of being a heaven (a realm). This is because our atmosphere contains two types of life. Physical, which is all that we can see. And spiritual. eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

QUOTE
gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


The third firmament is our solar system. Creation of this created all things physical that made day, night, seasons, years. What this means is that everything with in our solar system was created just for time, and the existence of our planet. And because it is also referred to as heaven (realm), it is considered a separate creation from the rest of space. Why? Because all that is with in this creation was made to support life that was contained on one planet. And is the very reason that the rest of what is in space is created later. Because of gravity, this also fits the definition of being compressed. And because our solar system is all around our planet, it also fits the definition of being an expansion.

QUOTE
gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.


The forth firmament is space beyond our solar system. This was when the stars and galaxies were created and set into space. And because this is also called a heaven (realm), it was a separate creation. And because this creation was not created to support life on the one planet earth. It was created differently. It was created for man kind to see the glory of the creation of God. This is why it is said that the light was to give light upon the earth (so we could see it). It never says anything about time, or a segment of time as to the reason why these lights (stars and galaxies) were created. The rule of creation beyond our solar system is the speed of light.

Example: When God said that these lights were created to give light upon the earth: And it was so. God made it so because natural light will not reach earth from such far distances. Why create things we cannot see? So as the light was made to shine upon the earth (as God made it so), the object that produced the light was made to age according to how far the light had to travel to reach earth (different creation rules because this creation is not based around supporting life). This is why everything was not created at once, it was created in different parts. There are different rules to how each created part would work, and why. And God explained why each part was created.

And because of gravity with in these systems, this would also fit the definition of being compressed. Which makes it fit with the word firmament.

QUOTE
gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,


A confirmation of why the stars, galaxies, etc... were created.

QUOTE
gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.


A confirmation of the second firmament being our atmosphere.

The word firmament is mentioned nine times in creation, and is found in seven verses. Seven is God's number of completion.

What this translates to is that we have two created timelines. One was created just to sustain physical life as we know it on planet earth (firmaments 1-3). Which includes all of the things God created with age, but without the passage of time (foundations of old).

QUOTE
Psalms 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.


The other was created for visual only (to shine upon the earth), for us to see (firmament 4).

QUOTE
gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.


"Why" they were created makes the rules for the actual creation.

1) Creation to sustain life has different rules (firmaments 1-3).
2) Creation to shine upon the earth (our visual view of creation) has different creation rules because life is not involved in it's creation (firmament 4).

This is why everything created with in our solar system does not fit the same guidelines on how we date everything beyond it. Distance, and speed of light travel dates everything beyond our solar system (to shine upon the earth). But can we apply this same rule to dating all that is contained with in our solar system? No. Only two different timelines, with two different rules for time can explain this. Or just different rules for creation of different firmaments.

But you have to admit that life seems to have a distinct reason as to why one area of space is so different from the other. And the same rules for time dating do not apply to each.

Why were the firmaments of life broken into three different creations?

The first firmament was creation of the canopy. It was different, and was created to protect us from the rays of the sun. So it had different physical laws in order to exist.

The second firmament was the creation of our atmosphere. And the physical laws here are based on supporting life. But the same physical laws do not apply to firmaments 1 and 3.

The third firmament was creation of space that is contained in our solar system, plus all physical objects in it. The laws here are different from firmaments 1 and 2.

It was the very laws of each created firmament that made each one to be a separate creation.
ikester7579
Firmament objects contained with in the solar system.

1) Semi solid, gas, liquid. Our sun which has it's on gravity (to be compressed = firmament).

2) Solid, to mostly solid (molten core). Planets, moons, and some astroids that have gravity (to be compressed = firmament).

3) The solar system. An object (sun) which controls the orbit of other objects through the use of gravity (to be compressed = firmament).
chance
ikester7579
Not sure if you are making theological argument or a scientific one.

For a theological POV your interpretation of “firmament” seems consistent enough, but this is not my strong point, others more Biblically knowledgeable may have something to say on this.

Science could dispute this however
QUOTE
This is why everything created with in our solar system does not fit the same guidelines on how we date everything beyond it. Distance, and speed of light travel dates everything beyond our solar system (to shine upon the earth). But can we apply this same rule to dating all that is contained with in our solar system? No.
ikester7579
QUOTE(chance @ Sep 20 2006, 04:59 PM)
ikester7579
Not sure if you are making theological argument or a scientific one.

For a theological POV your interpretation of “firmament” seems consistent enough, but this is not my strong point, others more Biblically knowledgeable may have something to say on this.

Science could dispute this however
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Yeah, I probably should have put this in the bible section.
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