I would like to make some comment, I don't know whether it is valid or not. Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know Adam and Eve disobeyed God, then God made all the rest of creation suffer as a result of this disobedience, this seems a bit over the top, punishing innocent parties because of what a distant relative did seems unfair, and the word that describes this action is "Vindictive" the definition = despiteful: showing malicious ill will and a desire to hurt; motivated by spite; "a despiteful fiend"; "a truly spiteful child"; "a vindictive man will look for occasions for resentment" so to my way of thinking, looking at the action of God, and understanding what vindictiveness is, I don't think I could accept that he was good, although I do realise he seems to be the one with all the power, the universe is his baby so to speak, but is might right? and if we want to be good like God, is he a good example of what we should be like? What do you think?

If the President of the United states makes a mistake, we all suffer. It was similar with Adam. He was the head over all of creation, and when he sinned, God judged Adam. Then Adam along with everything that he was in charged of was condemned to death because of sin.

Its the same for you, as a descendant of Adam you were born a sinner, and when God created you, you received Adam's condemnation, even though you did absolutely nothing to receive it. You did nothing to earn your condemanation, and you can't really do anything to get rid of it. Believing is non-meritorious, and thats Grace...

The good news is that God had you personally in mind when he sent Christ to the cross to pay for your sins, so now you can be set free from sin and its penalty by simply believing in Christ as your savior.

ACT 16:31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household."

The amazing that is that your pet, if you have one, is smarter than you, because while you deny the truth and worship the creation(that's what believing in evolution is) rather than the creator, your dog and/or cat is longing to see the revelation of the church.

ROM 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
ROM 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
ROM 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
ROM 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Terry

Does not the innocent children of a family suffer when the mother or father make the wrong choice?

1) If one parent drinks, does not the innocent children suffer?
2) If one parent commits a crime and goes to prison, does not the innocent suffer?

So which one of us is innocent and could live a sinless life?

A person who wants his cake and eat it too, does not want a just God. What he wants is a genie type god. One that will grant his every wish of what a god should be in his mind. One that will always allow him to sin, determine sin. And never make any rules about what sin is. His life and the way is lives it should be the norm for everyone else. Or, everyone should determine their own destiny by making their own rules and reality.

So If a killer or child molestor decides that their way of life should be the norm, then all should follow them because they determine right from wrong, good from evil.

So without someone who is just and draws the line where good and evil actually meet, who can determine this? Who on this earth has so much knowledge in this area that they could determine everything for the whole world?

Hitler tried. He failed. He tried to make everyone conform to his way of thinking and living. He drew the line in the middle of evil. He choose sin and tried to make everyone conform to it. So if we take control, who is to say that we could not become as currupt as Hitler?

For through history, and all those who tried to control the world. Can anyone name one person who did it well and with all fairness? It did not work then, and it will not work now.

So who are you better to be ruled by: The Hitlers of the world, or God?

[QUOTE][quote=ikester7579,Apr 1 2008, 02:46 AM]
Does not the innocent children of a family suffer when the mother or father make the wrong choice?[/QUOTE]

Yes sometimes the innocent children of a family suffer when the mother or father make the wrong choice. But why would a god, be so vindictive and make all of creation suffer because of the actions of the first man that this god created, and also if this god is all powerful and all knowing then of course he would have known that his creation namely Adam, was going to fail anyway, which of course makes god completely responsible for creating something that was designed to fail, and at the same time knowing that it was going to fail, unless of course this god is not as perfect as some people think, the whole thing is nonsensical.

Nonsense is denying God exists.
Nonsense is denying your a sinner.

Who are you to impune your maker, who you deny even exists?

Who are you to impune your maker who loved you enough to to find a solution to your sin problem?

Terry