How Can So Many Scientist Be So Wrong?

[JudyV 0]

Why do most biological scientists conclude that evolution happened?

 

The vast majority of Creationists are fundamentalist Christians.

 

Biological scientists who conclude that evolution is the best explanation for what happened here on earth to explain the diversity of plant and animal life we see today are not overwhelmingly atheistic, no matter what Creationists would like us to believe. I would say most of them probably are a cross-section of the various belief systems we encounter in the world today - Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, Protestants, and probably a lot of Catholics. Therefore, evolution = atheism is probably not a valid equation.

 

My question is, what are your theories about why this vast conspiracy continues to be apparent in the world today? Obviously, scientists have a range of religious beliefs, so how likely is it that they are conspiring to bring about a new atheistic world order?

 

Is it mass hypnosis? If so, who is hypnotizing these scientists, and for what purpose?

[Guest shpongle]

Just to give this some context, the number of biologists on AiG's list of creationist scientists number about 20-25. In contrast, there are ~90,000 biologists employed in the United States alone. So even just considering those numbers, the number who reject common descent amount to 0.02 to 0.03% of the number of biologists just in the US.

 

Even if I take the DI's list of "Dissenters from Darwinism" (which technically isn't even a rejection of common descent, much less evolutionary theory as a whole) assuming about ~1/3 on the list are biologists, you've got around 700 or so on the list (last I checked). That's ~230 biologists or ~0.25% versus biologists just in the US.

 

In contrast, take something like Project Steve (which has over 900 signatories) and has a MUCH more emphatic statement in favor of evolution than the DI's statement against it. And all those scientists have to have their first name begin with Steve or some variation thereof.

 

Not to mention all the various academic and scientific institutions with statements in support of evolutionary biology (and heck, even the Clergy Letter Project with over 11,000 signatures (!) ).

 

So this is just to give some context over the actual support for evolutionary biology. It's pretty solid, no matter where you look.

[Guest 92g]

Why do most biological scientists conclude that evolution happened?

That's what their taught.

 

My question is, what are your theories about why this vast conspiracy continues to be apparent in the world today?  Obviously, scientists have a range of religious beliefs, so how likely is it that they are conspiring to bring about a new atheistic world order?

All scientists do not believe in evolution.

 

Is it mass hypnosis?  If so, who is hypnotizing these scientists, and for what purpose?

God's word has the answer you are looking for in 2nd Thessalonians.

 

2TH 2:8 And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

2TH 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

2TH 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

2TH 2:11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false,

2TH 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

 

I'm convinced that Evolution is a satanic lie, and that God is using it as judgement upon people who reject him.

 

He's using Evolution to demonsrate the emptiness of man's thinking.

 

1CO 1:19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside."1CO 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1CO 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1CO 1:22 For indeed Jews ask for signs, and Greeks search for wisdom;

1CO 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness,1CO 1:24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1CO 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

Generally speaking, its never too late for anyone, even you...

 

Terry

[jason777 1]

They hypnotized themselves by making evolution unfalsafiable.When human and dinosaur tracks are found together or any other anomolous artifact it's explained away.They can't blame anybody but themselves for that.

 

Thanks.

[JudyV 0]

They hypnotized themselves by making evolution unfalsafiable.When human and dinosaur tracks are found together or any other anomolous artifact it's explained away.They can't blame anybody but themselves for that.

 

Thanks.

21586[/snapback]

 

So, what do these scientists have to gain by ignoring all of the overwhelming evidence against evolution?

[jason777 1]

Millions and Millions of dollars of grant money.Anybody who goes against darwinian dogma is singled out and eliminated.

 

Just look what Richard Dawkins did to a fellow evolutionists who just mentioned that students should be taught the critisisms of evolution.He was forced to resign his position at Oxford university.

 

Money is the root of all evil,I hope you will never forget that.

 

Thanks.

[scott 3]

Millions and Millions of dollars of grant money.Anybody who goes against darwinian dogma is singled out and eliminated.

 

Just look what Richard Dawkins did to a fellow evolutionists who just mentioned that students should be taught the critisisms of evolution.He was forced to resign his position at Oxford university.

 

Money is the root of all evil,I hope you will never forget that.

 

Thanks.

21591[/snapback]

Edit: The love of money is the root of all evil, I hope you will never forget that.

 

Don't worry Jason I just wanted to be the first person to correct the saying, instead of adding confusion.

 

Richard Dawkins doesn't like Creationist critisisms, or anyone who would think of allowing creationist to offer anything other than his beloved theory. This proves that he will stop at nothing to promote the Atheist/evolutionary agenda to its full extent. Poor Dawkins must have control of the whole cookie jar, and all the cookies, or else all your base are belong to him.

[jason777 1]

Hi judy,

 

Heres some details,he actually mentioned teachers should be willing to discuss creationism with students that beleive in it.

 

Monday, 15 September 2008

Several Fellows of the Royal Society, including Richard Dawkins, have called for Prof. Michael Reiss to be sacked from his post, the Guardian reports. Prof. Michael Reiss, the Society's Director of Education, is not a creationist, but has said that teachers should be willing to discuss the topic with pupils who are creationist. Prof. Reiss has himself taught science in secondary schools and written school textbooks. He is therefore very aware of the situations faced by teachers in classrooms.

 

That scientists, such as Richard Dawkins, Sir Harry Kroto and Sir Richard Roberts, should react with such intolerance to Prof. Reiss' mild comments is a new example of the level of discrimination in academia against anyone who even mentions the concept of questioning Darwinism. Other examples are documented in the film Expelled that will be released on DVD next month.

 

The Royal Society continues to support Prof. Reiss. 'Michael Reiss's views are completely in keeping with those of the Royal Society', a spokesman told the Guardian.

 

Thanks.

[JudyV 0]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

 

Many mainstream scientists may not really believe in the theory of evolution. However, they know that if they admit to this, they will be drummed out of academia, and will not be awarded the grant money they need.

 

I see the movie "Expelled" has made an impression.

 

Let's dig a little deeper. What motivates the administrators of these universities, as well as grant providers, to work so adamantly against anyone seeking to teach ID or Creationism? Why do they persecute these people (like the ones who were featured on "Expelled") with such venom? What motivates them to act so viciously?

[Guest shpongle]

Millions and Millions of dollars of grant money.Anybody who goes against darwinian dogma is singled out and eliminated.

This makes no sense. A lot of grant money is dished out to research institutions or private companies because of the net benefit (i.e. economic and social) of the underlying work they are doing. And this of course does not seem to consider private funding (i.e. VC money) which of course is all about net return for the VC financer.

 

The notion that evolution is here to stay just because scientists are clamoring for grant money makes zero logical sense in the context of the economy or private enterprise.

[scott 3]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

 

Many mainstream scientists may not really believe in the theory of evolution.  However, they know that if they admit to this, they will be drummed out of academia, and will not be awarded the grant money they need.

 

I see the movie "Expelled" has made an impression.

 

Let's dig a little deeper.  What motivates the administrators of these universities, as well as grant providers, to work so adamantly against anyone seeking to teach ID or Creationism?  Why do they persecute these people (like the ones who were featured on "Expelled") with such venom? What motivates them to act so viciously?

21595[/snapback]

A full blown case of Atheism.

[Fred Williams 0]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

 

Many mainstream scientists may not really believe in the theory of evolution.  However, they know that if they admit to this, they will be drummed out of academia, and will not be awarded the grant money they need.

 

I see the movie "Expelled" has made an impression.

 

Let's dig a little deeper.  What motivates the administrators of these universities, as well as grant providers, to work so adamantly against anyone seeking to teach ID or Creationism?  Why do they persecute these people (like the ones who were featured on "Expelled") with such venom? What motivates them to act so viciously?

21595[/snapback]

OK, you asked. Because evolution is their dearly-held religion that allows them to believe they are not accountable to a higher authority. They hate the idea of the God of the Bible, and they are greatly angered by anyone who would defend the Bible and attack their religion. All one needs to know as proof that their worldview drives their belief is that 99.9% of them will be socially liberal and pro-abortion (I’ve still never ever met an activist evolutionist who isn’t socially liberal, after 12 years of debating origins). They can’t win with evidence, so they suppress (censor) any balanced discussion of the evidence. It makes them mad that others want to expose their religion as a big sham built on a science-depraved myth less tenable than Alice in Wonderland. There’s your answer.

 

Fred

[ikester7579 20]

Why do most biological scientists conclude that evolution happened?

Because most like a world where the moral laws of God do not apply. So they are happy to accept a belief that justifies their chosen life style.

 

The vast majority of Creationists are fundamentalist Christians.

As are a vast majority of evolutionists are for the evolution theory. Most follow and approve of the tactics and attitude of Richard Dawkins. Would you say Dawkins is an average evolutionist, or a fundy?

 

Biological scientists who conclude that evolution is the best explanation for what happened here on earth to explain the diversity of plant and animal life we see today are not overwhelmingly atheistic, no matter what Creationists would like us to believe.  I would say most of them probably are a cross-section of the various belief systems we encounter in the world today - Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, Protestants, and probably a lot of Catholics.  Therefore, evolution = atheism is probably not a valid equation.

The separation that you imply to both sides does not work if you also approve of theistic evolution. And not all religions are the same because most teach about the past, and how to live your life. The Christian religion is the only one that has prophecy of things to come. Prophecy that would prove it wrong if these things do not happen. Only something beyond our understanding would have such knowledge.

 

My question is, what are your theories about why this vast conspiracy continues to be apparent in the world today?  Obviously, scientists have a range of religious beliefs, so how likely is it that they are conspiring to bring about a new atheistic world order?

Easy, several groups and individuals push for laws to shut of the free speech of religion. I can leave several links to these groups and examples if you like.

 

Is it mass hypnosis?  If so, who is hypnotizing these scientists, and for what purpose?

21582[/snapback]

People can be mesmerized by reason. Especially if the reasoning justifies their lifestyle. This is why evolution has such drawing power. It justifies any type lifestyle where you are the one in control of it.

 

Examples:

1) Does evolution justify s@xual preferences? Science says there are genes that make us this way.

2) Does evolution justify addictions? Science says there are genes that make us this way.

3) Does evolution justify an individuals violent acts upon another? Science says we evolved from animals, so reverting back is not uncommon.

etc...

 

Through science and the study of evolution, you can find justification for anything. So it draws those who do not want to live under a moral code of sorts. And that includes Christians who wish to compromise their faith.

 

So I guess one could say that it's the justification and philosophy that it teaches.

[ikester7579 20]

OK, you asked. Because evolution is their dearly-held religion that allows them to believe they are not accountable to a higher authority. They hate the idea of the God of the Bible, and they are greatly angered by anyone who would defend the Bible and attack their religion. All one needs to know as proof that their worldview drives their belief is that 99.9% of them will be socially liberal and pro-abortion (I’ve still never ever met an activist evolutionist who isn’t socially liberal, after 12 years of debating origins). They can’t win with evidence, so they suppress (censor) any balanced discussion of the evidence. It makes them mad that others want to expose their religion as a big sham built on a science-depraved myth less tenable than Alice in Wonderland. There’s your answer.

 

Fred

21605[/snapback]

I agree with Fred on this. And if you don't think evolution is a religion. Then I suggest you read this and the pages that follow: http://www.yecheadquarters.org/evolution_religion.html

[ikester7579 20]

So, what do these scientists have to gain by ignoring all of the overwhelming evidence against evolution?

21588[/snapback]

A different imagined reality where humanism rules, and they deem themselves as controlling their own destiny. Basically, they like the lure and the feeling of full control. And this is why those who love this control hate anyone who would try and take it away.

 

Example: What drives some evolutionists to go against a God they claim does not exist? Do they like fighting phatoms in the night? Sound silly don't it? But look at all the effort time and money spent doing this. Now being of reasonable mind, I would not waste my time or money on fighting what I believe does not exist.

 

All the effort of the non-believers show that they most know something is there, they just don't like what it is. Like one Christian who converted to atheism through debates with evolutionists said. He felt as if he had lost a friend. How do you get feelings of loss from something that does not exist?

[ikester7579 20]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

 

Many mainstream scientists may not really believe in the theory of evolution.  However, they know that if they admit to this, they will be drummed out of academia, and will not be awarded the grant money they need.

 

I see the movie "Expelled" has made an impression.

 

Let's dig a little deeper.  What motivates the administrators of these universities, as well as grant providers, to work so adamantly against anyone seeking to teach ID or Creationism?  Why do they persecute these people (like the ones who were featured on "Expelled") with such venom? What motivates them to act so viciously?

21595[/snapback]

Like I said in the other post. They like the full control given to them over their whole life through the teachings of evolution. They can basically justify anything, any action, or any thought. And they can blame something else and lead a life that basically allow them to act as they like without guilt of ever doing wrong.

 

That is an overwhelming draw to a species that basically has a tendency to want to sin. And because it gives an excuse and justification to do just that, everyone wants to believe it on some level. There is not one Christian here that can deny the drawing power of evolution because it allows one to have full control over their lives. And justify all their actions for what ever they want to do.

 

Can you name a sin action that science, through the study of evolution, does not have some type of explanation for?

 

And what do they deem anyone who would even ponder religion? Brain damaged. Which by the way, provides more justification for non-belief. And makes one afraid to even ponder an alternative because the peer pressure of change would be worse than just going along with the majority view.

[Adam Nagy 50]

That is an overwhelming draw to a species that basically has a tendency to want to sin. And because it gives an excuse and justification to do just that, everyone wants to believe it on some level. There is not one Christian here that can deny the drawing power of evolution because it allows one to have full control over their lives. And justify all their actions for what ever they want to do.

21609[/snapback]

Hi ikester,

 

What would you say to someone who leads a mild lifestyle that is very benign and is still a strong advocate of Darwin's theory?

 

Also, I just wanted to include this link for others because it is a similar topic:

 

http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/in...?showtopic=1887

[Adam Nagy 50]

I would like to throw one wrench in this discussion. What percentage of the "scientific community" actual finds themselves in direct contact with the theory of evolution on a daily basis?

 

Even a field like comparative genomics is mostly number crunching and comparative analysis which could be done freely before smearing the varnish of evolution on it.

 

When evolutionists are debated they usually point to a field other than their own for the "proof" for evolution. Why is this? I think it’s because they start to realize that their own observations and tests would be untouched without the theory of evolution.

 

The only people that seem to actually “apply” evolution are those applying it to their books and movies and making a livelihood out of convincing the nation that it’s needed science.

 

Does industry need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do doctors need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do astronomers need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do geologists need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do biologists need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do botanists need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do oceanographers need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Do chemists need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

Does physics need grand origins theories of any kind: nope

 

It seems that if evolutionists could successfully distinguish between belief and application, then the theory of evolution would take a back seat in moments as far as science herself is concerned. The only people in direct contact with evolution are those that are the modern architects of the fairytale itself, the religious clergy, self-proclaimed keepers of the made up fairytale.

 

Eugene Scott

Richard Dawkins

Christopher Hitchens

Sam Harris

Peter Atkins

Michael Shermer

William Provine

 

Isn’t it interesting that the loudest voices for Evolution are also some of the loudest voices for atheistism. I wonder why? Their biggest interest is keeping people convinced that science and evolution are so directly linked that one would fall without the other.

[JudyV 0]

Thank you for all of the responses. I've read them over and the gist of your responses seems to be that the reason evolution has such a hypnotic effect on people is that they do not want to be accountable for their actions to a higher power, and therefore they want to believe in naturalistic origins, and then be able to get away with all kinds of sinful behavior, such as H*m*s*xuality and abortion.

 

Is this about right?

 

I'm still perplexed however, by the fact that so many religious people belong to the group you lable as "Evolutionists." Are these Christians and Jews and other believers merely being misled? They do believe they answer to a higher authority, and yet fully accept that the evidence shows that evolution happened. They probably live very moral lives, go to church, support charities, and believe they are going to heaven, just like you.

 

The other thing that I wonder about is, if being Born Again is supposed to lead to becoming a new person, why this isn't reflected in the lifestyles of Fundamentalist Christians? We secularists would have cause to question our disbelief is we noticed how morallly Born Again Christians behaved toward their fellow man. However, the morals of the atheists I know seem just as good as the morals of the true believers of my acquaintance. When I look at human beings, that's what I see: flawed individuals doing their best to have a good life. There's no noticable difference between different groups of individuals, when it comes to kindness, compassion, integrity, etc.

 

Thanks for alll of your answers, once again.

[Adam Nagy 50]

Thank you for all of the responses.  I've read them over and the gist of your responses seems to be that the reason evolution has such a hypnotic effect on people is that they do not want to be accountable for their actions to a higher power, and therefore they want to believe in naturalistic origins, and then be able to get away with all kinds of sinful behavior, such as H*m*s*xuality and abortion.

21635[/snapback]

No just one, Pride. Or:

 

Self Actualization

 

It goes back to the garden:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

(Gen 3:1-7)

 

Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said (question the maker), 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"

 

2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'"

 

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God (Make yourself the rule of morals and virtue, after all morals are subjective to the individual, right?), knowing good and evil."

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

All those others that you mentioned are byproducts of the original sin and are used as a ploy to make Christians look insensative. Hey, go figure. What an upside down world this is when Self Actualization (code word for pride) is called a good thing.

 

Oh, here are some of your sensative, likeminded people:

 

http://www.freeratio.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=249982

[Adam Nagy 50]

This may be an aside but Ravi Zacharias gives the proper Christian perspective on H*m*s*xuality by addressing sin as it is:

 

qkCkXU0e75k

 

Judy, a Christian or a professing Christian may say hateful things but he is subject to the Words of Christ making that individual in violation of the creed they profess.

 

An Atheist that chooses to be hateful has no standard to correct wrong behavior. There is nothing to violate just a claim that atheists are statistically good (whatever that is ). I guess it's easy for people to be really really good when they set their own standards.

 

Sounds like the fox is watching the hen house.

[Guest shpongle]

I think the Clergy Letter Project should put to bed the silly notion that people believe in evolution so they don't have to be accountable to a higher power. This "evolution=atheism" idea is a complete myth.

 

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others†is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.

Over 11 thousand signatures at last count.

[Guest shpongle]

Even a field like comparative genomics is mostly number crunching and comparative analysis which could be done freely before smearing the varnish of evolution on it.

People keep saying this but ignore the fact that applying evolution to these fields works better.

[Adam Nagy 50]

People keep saying this but ignore the fact that applying evolution to these fields works better.

21642[/snapback]

Would you say this is what you believe or a proven fact?

 

Even if every individual that does comparative genomics is a card carrying evolutionist, what does that prove?

 

The Salvation Army and many other charitable foundations are Christian. Since they do good, and believe in God, would that convince you that their belief in God is right because they “apply God” to do good?

 

No?

 

So why are you so certain that belief in evolution is a fact because some fields of inquiry are filled with evolutionists?

[Guest shpongle]

Would you say this is what you believe or a proven fact?

There is scientific literature to support that it works better.

 

The Salvation Army and many other charitable foundations are Christian. Since they do good, and believe in God, would that convince you that their belief in God is right because they “apply God†to do good?

Nobody "applies God", at least not in a scientific sense. This is because God is a philosophical concept, not a scientific one.

 

So why are you so certain that belief in evolution is a fact because some fields of inquiry are filled with evolutionists?

21644[/snapback]

That's missing the point. The point is they are applying evolutionary theory. This isn't about belief. It's about application. There is a difference.